[This is an original letter I sent to The Whiskey — today, and will keep it updated with their response. I want people to know what happened there so they know what happens there and make their own decisions as to whether to go or not.]
Dear Toby Bird, Management at The Whiskey Nightclub,
On Friday, October 13, 2006 a situation happened at your bar that raises my question about the way that patrons at your bar are being treated on a regular basis. I arrived around 10:30 PM with three of my close friends from work (all women — useful for later). We spent the night dancing and hanging around together, and generally having a great time. At one point he had lost one of our friends so two of my friends left me at the bottom of a flight of stairs to go find their friend. During this time I was leaning against a wall waiting for them to reappear. After 3 minutes I gave up (I checked my watch) and headed up the stairs to find them at the top. We exchanged hugs and upon me stepping back after the hug I was grabbed. My arm was placed behind my back and another arm was placed on my shoulder. I turned slightly and was told by the bouncer in question that I was getting kicked out of the bar. He started to lead me down the stairs towards the back door. I never resisted his movements and along with myself my friends (two girls) were also lead out the back door. At the back door we were told by bouncer that he had reports that I had groped 4 women and he had been looking for me for the last 15 minutes. My friend Erin then asked how he could prove that in-fact I was the individual they were looking for and his response was, “The individual reported was wearing the same shirt, same hairstyle, and …… the same ring (as he pointed at my lip ring).”
I then indicated to the bouncer that we required our jackets to which he agreed to meet us at the other side of the building. After walking around the building we each gave him our tickets and I asked him for his name. Upon hearing me question the security another officer manning the front mumbled something to his friend. I asked him what he said to his friend and he told me that “he should just not bother with our jackets and send us on our ways.” Upon the return of our jackets and getting ready to go the security spoke with the police officers that were waiting nearby. As I was leaving they approached me and asked for my information. Now I was being questioned by them and my information was being taken in case one of the women in question wanted to file a complaint later. I was totally embarrassed and surprised with this method of procedure given it was completely hearsay.
Frankly, now I’m left with wondering as to whether I possibly gave someone a look that made them feel uncomfortable. I’m not the type of guy to go around groping women as I have a lot more respect for them than that. It also makes me wonder if I was being targeted because I don’t fit your “typical” clientele. Regardless I have a few questions and pieces of feedback that I would appreciate your comments on. I think the important part here is that I’m not trying to prove my innocence, because it’s my word against yours but I am questioning the procedures that took place that night.
Raised issues
- Why were my friends kicked out of the bar? If I am the individual in question that had supposedly been “groping” women so why not send me on my way. This leads me to further prove my case that this was a case of discriminating against me based on my looks.
- Why was my arm placed behind my back? When first approached by the bouncer I had no opportunity to agree or disagree to leave with him. He grabbed my arm, placed it behind my back, and forced me down the stairs. I should note that one of my friends has a hearing problem and she kept asking the other bouncer what he was doing. As he was responding to her she kept turning around to read his lips but he kept forcing her forward. Was it necessary to not try and create a huge confrontation and approach this situation with more patience, calm attitudes, and less force.
- I was never asked during this entire episode where I had been. I lied the only individual to ask me where I had been and when was the police officer who questioned me later. But really if you are having those types of reports wouldn’t it be more appropriate to have a full time security agent stationed in a room with cameras. When a report comes in you can find the individual in question, check tapes, and verify the story. Not that difficult and something that even a grocery store like Safeway does. Again if I were at fault here then I should be kicked out no question because women should feel safe in bars…not pieces of meat. But to think that I had groped 4 women in the process of 3 minutes is pretty crazy don’t you think. My friends were with me 99% of the night and given that he said he’d been looking for me for the last 15 minutes (unlikely) that’s a short amount of time and a LOT of women to approach the bouncer at the same time to make a report. Thus making the entire claim pretty fishy when you work out the mathematical odds of such a situation happening.
- Why was there a problem with getting our jackets? Not once during the entire situation was I being sarcastic, smart, or an ass. In fact at the backdoor my two friends started to yell at the bouncer and I told everyone to calm down so that we could hear the entire story. I was being really reasonable and I wonder whether this bouncer felt threatened because I had asked for his name (I’m more inclined to think this was the reason).
- Contacting police. I personally think it was appropriate to notify the police about this situation given that if I had groped 4 women someone might come along and lay charges. But there is a bit of a problem with this situation really. If you wanted to prevent this from happening wouldn’t you ask each women who reported to stay in a area in the bar for a few minutes, apprehend the individual, get the police to interview the women, and then interview the suspect. Otherwise, you are wasting everyone’s time and the individual at “fault” is inevitable going to get away given they actually did commit the crime. I mean you would rather have the reputation of stopping this type of thing happening rather than the reputation of letting people in to do these things and dealing with them later.
Ironically, when I tell people about this incident they tell me one of two things. Either that the reputation of The Whiskey is that they treat people that way and that people don’t want to go there or that they feel that I was targeted because of my style. I’m left feeling fairly upset about this situation as I think there were plenty of things your company could be doing to deal with this situation more appropriately. I’m disappointed in the way that I was treated at your bar, and frankly think that the bouncers completely mistreated me.
Sincerely,
Shane B
CC: Denis Oulette
17 comments
Monday, October 16, 2006 at 8:38 am
mike r
Dude, this completely sucks. Discrimination sucks. My wife just left her job (of four years) because of descrimination (so did her boss). It blows my mind that this childish “I’m so much better than thou art” mentality would still exist, but there’s always a jerk. I did the same for you as I did for my wife: I doubled up on your letter and complaint because I’ve been on the wrong end of descrimination myself and can’t abide by it. I will only go see Sloan next week if you tell me it’s okay.
Hi.
You booted a person from your establishment this weekend whom you had no business singling out. I understand the need to keep patrons of your establishment safe, but this time you most certainly have the wrong guy. In fact, doing even the simple math for his situation really should tell you how wrong your staff were and how inappropriate they were in the way they treated him. So first, just do the simple math:
Complaints of a guy groping four girls. He was at the bar with three friends, all of whom were girls. What sense is there in that math?
That makes no sense to me purely based on his company, even if I never knew the guy. Now I begin to think of recent media reports seriously criticizing your establishment (and others) for discriminating against people at the door. Read me: if you want a private club, sell memberships in off-hours and require them at the door. Then explain to people during business hours why you consider them worthy or not to attend your establishment. To my mind, it smacks awful suspiciously of singling my friend out based on his appearance and my firm belief that no such complaint was ever actually leveled. Some ego-driven bouncer simply saw my friend leaning against a stairway waiting for his friends, and his lack of Diesel Jeans was too much to bare. I’ve been there before myself and quite frankly the superiority complex is juvenile and utterly ridiculous. Maybe individuals such as this are simply mad that the pecking order that existed in the ninth grade no longer applies at age thirty, who knows? Now I will go through the complex math:
I have known this guy for years. I have taught him in University, worked with him, and have followed his travels and the reasons for them on his weblog. His continual philanthropic volunteering, youth activism and genuine respect for his common man make the complaints leveled supposedly against him a complete nonsensical farce.
You don’t have the benefit of knowing him so hopefully that spells it out to you. I know you will be receiving another letter personally from him and I am writing this now after reading his letter as posted on his weblog. I urge you to take his questions seriously and even if he will not get angry I certainly will on his behalf. If you need further proof of his nature, I urge you to read his weblog: do ask him for the link; I am not including it because it’s his business to share it or not. You’ll see very quickly that he is a larger individual than the judgemental miscriant who threw him out unfounded.
Treating people like this is completely unacceptable; especially when the treatment occurs and then further insult is added (e.g., potentially denying the return of personal belongings just to be a jerk). If this kind of treatment continues, you can be assured that you won’t go out of business. That is a sad sad fact. Your liquor sales will keep you afloat even with the hundreds of people you turn away based purely on how they look or on the word of some drunken bimbo who probably ran into them in the first place because she thought they were a pole or a wall (even if one complainant existed at all). Even with all of his friends and now me refusing to ever come to your establishment again, you’ll stay in business. It’s unfortunate and silly that this kind of segregation still exists. My wife recently left her job running half of a millwork shop (four years at this shop!) purely because the owner refused to recognize that she did in fact run half of the shop. “Well, you’re just a young girl, you can’t possibly know what to do!” Her boss (a guy) left a week earlier for largely the same reason. Bull, and it sickens me.
I was seriously looking forward to coming to the Whiskey next week to see Sloan. I have been going to their concerts for well over twelve years and I really could see no reason to kick the habit. I have seen many concerts and as a DJ have attended many club events for artists I enjoy and respect at your venue, and have always enjoyed it because the setup has been so excellent. I especially enjoy the aluminum Heineken bottles (I don’t know why but I do). Shame on you. Now I am seriously questioning my desire to come and see my favourite band. As a university student in the Den my friends called me Sloan-boy. DJ Wah knew to play the Sloan before I even approached the DJ booth for a request. As a fan (not a groupie), I am really disappointed to read of my friend’s experience and its causal effect being me questioning my willingness to see my favourite band. So you are hurting the people you book at your venue as well. Sloan has stopped their concerts right in the middle to shut down a rowdy crowd and pull one or two jerks crushing their fans out before starting again (which I’ve always respected, one of the reasons I am such a fan). They’ve got the birds eye view and can 100% see who the trouble makers are. That’s not what happened to my friend and you really should endeavour to be more like your booking: see what you hear before you act and for goodness sake act with some common sense.
I don’t expect a reply to this (as in my experience most often these types of letters are not addressed), but I do urge a reply to my friend and that if there is any honest to goodness decency in your business you take his situation extremely seriously. Thanks for reading and now my Monday is ruined, even after it was already Monday!
m.
Tuesday, October 17, 2006 at 7:11 am
shaneonabike
WOW! Dude that is fuckin nice! Like super nice of you to write that on my behalf holy shit sticks. I’m speachless…thanks man so much great energy in that.
Personally I think you should still go to Sloan. At the very least just go and enjoy it and everytime you want something to drink as for water (hah). You have no choice cause the venue you are attending has already been picked. But sloan would be well worth the view.
Tuesday, October 17, 2006 at 17:13 pm
phrenseed
There is such a thing as filing legal action for false accusation and defaming character. Now imagine being mistakenly accused, but being disabled and not being able to explain that you are falsely accused. Must mean you are guilty – what did a famous defense attorney say, “Looks guilty, must BE guilty.” It is never too late to find the weak link in any misunderstanding: the individual who needs the most compassion – if it’s not you, who might it be? http://www.gnuzworks.com
Sunday, October 22, 2006 at 17:03 pm
shaneonabike
[Reposted with Kelsey’s permission]
Hey shane!
you’re probably feeling better already now that some time has passed and
you’ve perhaps realized that people’s fear and anger and paranoia and need
to scapegoat have nothing to do with you personally, but I thought I would
send you a hug anyway.
And perhaps your distress has nothing to do with that and you are very aware
of the above situation. Anyway, feel free to share such frustrations
anytime, for you know you do the same for me.
I can’t wait to catch up about each others weekend.
HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~kelsey
Sunday, October 22, 2006 at 17:08 pm
shaneonabike
Ironically, it’s now been a couple of weeks and I’m feeling better about this situation. The fact that they never really wrote me back kinda shows the type of place this bar is really. I mean if htey don’t care about customer complaints they probably are more into the experience about making big $$$ then they are making people happy. Ah well it’s their karma they have to deal with in the end.
Hugs to all!
– Shane
PS – ON the topic of suing people I’ve never been a fan of this type of procedure. I know it’s growing in popularity but I don’t like the practice unless it deals with ongoing racial, social, and societal prejudices. I’d rather confront people face on and try and deal with the situation that way first.
Monday, October 23, 2006 at 17:38 pm
shaneonabike
Fuck that sucks ML sorry to hear that (really SORRY). Umm question though. When I tried to double jacket my hoodie and jacket in coat check the women told me that I couldn’t because she would get caught by the cameras (thus I paid $8 instead of $4 for coat check). Couldn’t the manager check hte tapes to find out what happened? That’s why they have rolling film in the first place/
How ridiculous…I can see it now…(they’re response to you) – “Yah sorry those aren’t real cameras … they are plastic just to make sure people don’t do anything stupid.”
Monday, October 23, 2006 at 7:33 am
jl
Shane,
I am glad you wrote the letter even if it means that nothing will come of it. They need to know about how their employees are treating people. And if nothing else, at least you are making other people aware of the situation. Kudos!
JL
Monday, October 23, 2006 at 16:11 pm
ML
I came across this discussion in an attempt to scout out some info about who might own the club.
Here’s my recent experience:
My wallet was stolen from the nightclub in question on Sat night – my coat went in with my wallet in the pocket and came out without it. Isn’t the coatcheck supposed to be secure/safe? Makes you wonder…I stood and waited for 30 min to get any sort of help, with about 3 threats to kick me out. I was upset/angry and voicing my concerns to my friend when one of the bouncers aggressively threw verbal assault my way, called me obscene names (ok – SCREAMED obscene names at me), and threw me onto the street, telling me that if I wanted help then I would have to talk to a police officer standing by because he wasn’t going to do a thing for me.
What a nice place.
What a joke.
That being said – the manager I did finally talk to was incredibley nice and as helpful as he could be given the circumstances. He even called my cell last night to give me an update. Regardless, there is not much he can do for me.
It’s not the first time I’ve heard of something bad happening there and not the first bad experience I’ve had there. To me, there is no such thing as a third chance. I am not going back to that place.
Tuesday, October 24, 2006 at 7:25 am
mike r
Hopefully they write you back, Shane. I got the following letter today:
good morning…
my name is darren and i am the
new general manager of the whiskey
nightclub
i wanted to thank you for taking the
time to write and inform us of the treatment
your friend received while at our club
without this information we would have never
been aware of it ever having happened
i apologize for the delay in responding but
rest assured that i / we take this type of
behavior by our employees very seriously
and that i am personally addressing the matter
with apologies on behalf of the whiskey
darren
In other news, Sloan still knows how to throw a rock and roll show, that’s for sure. It was an awesome concert!! With the Whiskey, I always leave my coat in the car.
Wednesday, October 25, 2006 at 20:57 pm
shaneonabike
I also received something to that effect (not the bit about the matter being dealt with) two days ago. The manager wanted to talk to me on the phone, but tragically being that I work 9-5 it’s kinda hard. So I wrote him back and explained the situation and suggested we just converse over e-mail. Perhaps he’s a little gun shy now that I have this posted on the web. Regardless, it’s good that you wrote Mike and that he is taking this “seriously”.
HI-FIVE!
Tuesday, October 31, 2006 at 21:51 pm
shaneonabike
I should finish this by saying that apparently in the “past weekend the whiskey nightclub has released 7 door supervisors from service in an effort to create a safer and more hospitable environment for our clientele”. I’m not entirely sure if this includes the two individuals that I had a confrontation with (he seemed to know the one individual I was referring to although never mentioned whether he was the guy to be fired).
At least they are taking some action to clean up the staff and make the other guys realize that some of the shit being pulled isn’t appropriate. I can’t help but not applaud them for trying to do something about the problem.
Friday, May 4, 2007 at 18:07 pm
some guy
Dude this really sucks the way you were treated. Thank god you weren’t brown though. If you were brown you would have had the shit kicked out of you. I’ve been denied entry into dozens of clubs because either i look like some other dumbass brown guy who actually did start a fight or i didn’t wear a collarred shirt yet the t-shirt i had on was worth a shitload of money. ]
here’s a story:
me and my friends were walking to a club and the bouncer saw us and right before we could say anything, he says “you guys can’t come in it’s too late”.
IT WAS ONLY 11:00 we proceeded to get into a bit of an argument with the one bouncer. nobody would back him up until 10 mins later when the manager came out. the bouncer was the one starting the argument, we as would-be-patrons were trying to calm HIM down. the manager then came to see what was going on and instead of telling us to leave and calming his employee down, he just stood there. oh yeah by the way, the bouncer we got into an argument with had a knife in his pocket. it was only after a girl came in and said to the manager GET YOUR GUY IN THE BAR AND THESE GUYS WILL LEAVE. after about 30 mins of yelling and swearing the altercation was broken up. this is just one of many stories.
another time i was by myself. i just got off work and i was meeting my girlfriend and her friends at a lounge called mercury
the bounce made me stand outside for 20 mins, let anyone who was white or asian inside but me. i finally told him LOOK I’M ALONE, MY GF IS INSIDE, ARE YOU GOING TO LET ME IN OR NOT. IF I WANTED TO START A FIGHT I WOULD BE HERE WITH A HELL OF A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST MYSELF. he let me in. the bouncer was a short little fuck too who i could’ve kicked the shit out of for sure and i’m a small guy too.
we then stayed at mercury for a few more mins then left and went to lucky’s.
there i met the BIGGEST MUSCLE BOUND STEROID FREAK i ever seen. a guy you would see in musclemag. this guy could literally rip me apart in a second. this guy treated me like a king. he joked with us for a few mins then let us in. one of the greatest bouncers i’ve ever known who sided with me completely when i told him what happened.
Friday, May 4, 2007 at 21:23 pm
Shane Bill
some guy – Dude I totally get where your at. Calgary is still full of some serious racism and it’s definitely geared towards people who don’t fit the mold and that includes people of other colours. Sorry to hear that shit is still going down and that people are treating you that way. I do think as a white guy that experience really makes me humbled (and being a little on the edge does tend to get me more attention then I should be getting). So I hear you loud and clear and I think the fact that you are talking about it is the first step to changing this shit around.
Wednesday, October 24, 2007 at 14:11 pm
K
You guys are right to post these types of comments. I myself have personally experienced a similiar situation at The Whiskey nightclub. I should start out by saying that The Whiskey had been my favorite hangout on Saturday nights for the last four years; I have quite literally spent tens of thousands of dollars at that club. I have seen bouncers come and go, coat check people come and go, and bartenders come and go. I have patronized that club for longer than ANY of it’s staff with the exception of the excellent “bathroom guy” (kudos to him).
I had been on a regular night out, dancing, drinking, having fun, when I decided to go out for a smoke. Out of nowhere, some girl rushes out and says that I had groped her friend on the dancefloor as loud as she could, in front of everyone out there!!! I was with my female roomate, and her friend at the time, and had, in fact, just finished dancing with the two of them who were outside with me. You can imagine the arguement that happened between them after that! The bouncer came over and calmly asked us to stop which we did, as the drunken girl went back inside (apparently to alert the whole bar that a predator was in the house). The bouncer told me to forget it, and to stay away from her, but did not kick me out. Upon returning inside, I spent the last 20 minutes of my, shorter than usual night, running from this crazy girl (no friends around her by the way) who was yelling that I grabbed her friend!!!!
I ended up leaving early, to avoid what you had experienced, but I feel nervous to even go back, for fear that I have been marked for something that I would NEVER do. I show all women respect, but my confidence with my respect has waivered since that evening. I have heard from others that it is not the first time this kind of complaint has occurred out of the blue at this club. It seems that the guys get scrutinized at the door, but the ladies are let in, regardless of what may be going on. The lesson I suppose I learned is that women need to be treated with a whole new type of respect these days at clubs like this…..the respect of the fact that at any moment….if they dont like how you said “hello”, they can quite easily ensure you don’t get to stay, and spend your hard earned money.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel that the majority of people are good, but you never know who are the good and and who are the bad……be careful who you look at out there these days!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.—A note to the management of The Whiskey:
It is hard to find good people to work these days, but remember that the bouncers out front are representing your company, and create the first impression of your establishment. I have personally found some of these people to be completely ignorant, and void of any intelligence. I work in a tough job, that involves dealing with difficult people also and can feel their pain at times, but you have to have people that can take it out there, or FIRE them, and get new people. THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN.
Wednesday, October 24, 2007 at 15:00 pm
Shane Bill
K – Thanks for sharing man … it’s sad that this crap is still happening man. And I agree that people do have to be careful and perhaps different systems need to be put into place. I dunno I basically completely wrote that place off and haven’t gone back since more cause I didn’t want a repeat (or something worse I spose).
As for your comment about poor management and selection of employees I completely agree with the quote. It’s pretty crappy when you aren’t being more rigorous in your selection of good staff and bouncers. But then again your staff kinda represent the kind of person you are too….right?
Thursday, October 25, 2007 at 11:35 am
K
Agreed. Perhaps we need to get a few people together and open their competition.
Saturday, May 22, 2010 at 21:54 pm
christina
Really? You had a bad night. Stop complaining and get over it.